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I am close to buying a rifle and have a couple in mind. I like the Remington 700 BDL and Savage 116fxp3, from what I have heard the Remington is a better gun. How do you guys think it stacks up? Have any other suggestion on maybe a better rifle? I will be buying it in the 30-06 round and plan to hunt next year for deer or Elk in Montana or Wyoming..
 

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personallt i would go with the ruger model 77 hawkeye. I have two of these rifles in the 30.06 and .270 great guns and for about 550 its not that bad of a price
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Fish Boy said:
personallt i would go with the ruger model 77 hawkeye. I have two of these rifles in the 30.06 and .270 great guns and for about 550 its not that bad of a price
Thats a good looking rifle. When would you use the 270 over the 06?

And Happy B day Tup:
 

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There isnt really a difference in the two calibers, matter of fact they are nearly the same. I see no huge difference myself but thats just me. They both are good rifles and thats that IMHO.
 

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The Hawkeye and the new model 70 are the two to pick today. Both have Controlled round feed which is a much better design then a Push feed system.

http://www.howardcommunications.com/win ... %2070.html

As far as the cartridge choice, the 30/06 is the superior and more versatile cartridge. As a Professional hunter I've seen an amazing array of cartridges used. It's very clear that the 30 caliber diamater is superior to anything smaller. When you have to find wounded game that has run off, it's far more frequent with the hunters who shoot sub 30 caliber cartridges. They will all kill game, but finding them is much easier with the bigger diameter bullet. The 30/06 is 20% bigger then the .270 That's a huge difference in bullet hole size and what will be provided as a blood trail.

My loaner rifles in South Africa are all 30/06 for plains game for this reason. We have almost no struggle with the 30 caliber rifles and larger. However the 7mags and 270's simply cause us headaches when looking for game that has run off. I'm not saying that you get a fountain of blood from every 30 caliber hole but you have a very high percentage of absolutely nothing dripping from the cartridges less then 30 caliber.

To say there is no difference is not at all accurate. The 30/06 shoots heavier bullets faster. It would be like saying the 30/06 and 300 win mag are pretty much the same. or the 300 win mag and the 338 are about the same, Again not at all true. Nothing shot from a 270 can equal the power of what is possible from a 30/06. I had hunters shoot at least 1000 animals with mine in the last 15 years. Nobody had a struggle. During that same time I'll bet we spend several months of days searching for game shot with sub 30 caliber rifles. Just remember the 30/06 is 20% bigger then the 270 That is a significant difference!
 

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I'm not a big savage fan, but they have a really good reputation for accuracy. I do like Rem M700 BDL's though. I would'nt shy away from the Rem because it is a push feed. I have a few, and have never had a problem. I would step up to the 06 if you have elk in mind. Even go a little bigger. Big animals can run when you shoot them..Even with a good hit. Its nice have a big hole Ther are many good choises these days with rifles. I think my next one will be a kimber. But who knows.... If your going to Wyoming the rifle will be the cheap part. I would not skimp on spending a little dough for a good gun. Or better yet get 2 guns. One rem m700 in 270, and a win m70 in .338wm.
 

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I never feel really good about this format when I have a difference in opinion. The written word is sometimes taken out of the intended context when there is no facial expressions or typical conversation as there would be around a campfire. So with that said realize this is just an opinion and meant in a friendly and good way, it's all just banter between friends. At least I hope that is the way it's taken!

I've seen considerable problems with hunters jamming the second shot on a follow up with Push feed rifles. I've never see it with a CRF. That is not to say a CRF solves every known rifle problem, but it certainly solves several. In every case I have heard the nearly identical comment form the hunter.

"wow I've read about this problem, but in all the years i've used this gun it's never done this before" And so it goes. There are simply two kinds of people with a Push feed rifle, those that have had a double feed and those that will.

The next very common problem is owning several rifles which all have a different trigger pull weight. The light ones go before you're ready the heavier ones pull you off target. It's an incredibly common problem for the widely varied hunters I have had in my camps. After that I hear this problem frequently as well.

"I screwed up the shot becuse I could not get the safety off. On my other rifle the safety is "XYZ" and this new rifle is "ABC"

So If it's me helping somebody trying to get started with a good rifle. Here is the decision I would make. Keep all your rifles of the same manufacturer, or style. Example Ruger, Montana, and Winchester all have the same 3 position safety. They mix just fine. Set all trigger pulls to exactly the same weight.

Use a 3.5-10XVIII leupold scope in Leupold Dual Dovetail rings on a Winchester or Montana, Use the fantastic Ruger Rings on a Ruger. Buy a Stainless Steel and synthetic stocked rifle. It will go weeks without cleaning even while living in a wet tent camp or hunting near salt water. It will ride the gun rack of an ATV in a blizzard, you can set it down and never worry about dings, scratches, rust, or a swollen or warped stock.

These are some really fool proof basic ideas I think make a fabulous rifle for any serious big game hunter. Please don't think I'm dismissing anyone elses ideas. I'm just having some chat here among friends. I base all this on 20 plus years of big game hunting for a living and having had hundreds of hunters with lots of different firearms in my camps.
 

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You've had a lot of exposure JJ. Way more than most. I don't think anyone is going to hold your opinion against you. Thats good stuff ya just wrote. Especially the dope about trigger pull. Most mine are 2 lbs..but not all. Be careful with cold fingers and light triggers. 3 LBS is a better choise for most, but I do a bit of vermin shooting. Good info on the safety too. That goes with shotguns too. I did'nt have any problem making the transition from a mod 700 safety to a 3 position safty, but throw in a tang safty........

Looks like you have a hard on for push feeds...I have to say all my favorite rifles are Rem M700 BDL'S. They all shoot too.
 

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mayfly0013 said:
Fish Boy said:
personallt i would go with the ruger model 77 hawkeye. I have two of these rifles in the 30.06 and .270 great guns and for about 550 its not that bad of a price
Thats a good looking rifle. When would you use the 270 over the 06?

And Happy B day Tup:
thanks mayfly, i bought the 270. because i am starting two collect firearms, and for the reason i got it with a little linger barrel for eastern washington and plains hunting, my .06 is for brush with synthetic and stainless as the .270 is wood with blued barrel
 

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O. mykiss said:
There isnt really a difference in the two calibers, matter of fact they are nearly the same. I see no huge difference myself but thats just me. They both are good rifles and thats that IMHO.
jake, the .270 shoots alot faster and flater so it dosnt shoot through the brush as well, it makes a great open country rifle as the .06 is more of a all purpose rifle that does well in anyhting except it shoots a little slower and has more knocking power.
 

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just to let you guys know that my next rifle is gonna be the ruger .375 alaskan!! JJHACK i just may have to let you use it or have myself come over there and test her out. even thought they make the african model.
 

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Personally I believe the "shoot thru brush" bit is a pipe dream. Perhaps if you are using a 20mm, but any rifle's projectile can be deflected by brush. Simple remedy, don't try to shoot thru brush. The animal deserves a better break than that.
I have 3 -06s and 5 270s. I have never been to Africa and am confident I never will. darn. JJ is correct that the 06 can shoot fatter projectiles than the 270 at the price of a bit more recoil. With the new crop of wonder projectiles on the scene a 270 can shoot stem to stern on darned near any critter on this continent. I do like bullets that exit. Much easier to find the carcass.
Just voicing opinions here. All my hunting has been in the states so I'm very provincial.
 

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I'd say shop around and try just about every rifle in the style and price you are looking at, and find the one that fits you most comfortably. The savage is a reliable, accurate rifle as is the remington. I own a remington 700, and about my only complaint is the factory trigger pull weight. It seems the factory presets most of them in the high range to avoid lawsuits. They can be adjusted by a qualified gunsmith, or replaced with an aftermarket trigger pretty easily. The Savage comes with the accutrigger which I have read nothing but good things about. Like I said though, check them both out, read all you can about them and pick which one you feel most comfortable with.
 

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When I was in school at the Professional hunting academy in South Africa we had some interesting lessons on shooting through brush. In the academy we had a lot of classroom but we had equal amounts of field work as well.

We were able to shoot lots of rifles and cartridges through brush at various distances. It was a deliberate exercise to prove fact and fiction in regards to "shooting through brush"

Even the 458 win mag, 500 jeffery, 470 nitro, and my 458Lott had bullets hit the paper sideways when the target was 3 to 5 meters behind the brush. No projectile made a clean round hole in the paperboard. The bonded core, solids, and the monolithic bullets all made a single hole, while the cup and core bullets had shrapnel impacts of as many as a dozen bits of metal through the paperboard backing. The higher the velocity the more deflection, and disintigration of the bullets. The cartridges that were under 2200fps and over 400 grains did the best, but not even those hit the paper backing straight.

Conclusion, the term "brush guns" mean you can hunt in the brush at close range, not shoot through it! The 2 years this education lasted consisted of many different aspects of hunting. We had to perform many other tests just like this with trajectory of bullets, arrow, and shotgun patterns.

As far as the 270 shooting faster and flatter............ only if your not comparing the same weights. Shoot a 130 grain bullet from each and they are the same. There is another difference, you cannot shoot a 180, 200, 220, 250 out of a 270 rifle, but you can from a 30/06. No other caliber has as wide ranging weights as the .308 diameter. from a 55grain accelerator to the 250 grain barnes originals. Thats the definition of versatile!
 

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JJ, when you were doing the brush testing, was the bullet hitting where you were aiming, or how far was it deflected off? I've never shot through brush and don't really plan to, just curious. Also, I'm assuming the bullet won't mushroom out as effectively if it hits the target sideways?
 

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Some hit really close to the aimpoint, some further away by about a foot or so. As far as designed performance, no way these things will mushroom properly hitting sideways.

There are so many variables with brush like density, angle up or down, velocity & weight of bullet, Solid soft point, distance of target behind the brush. It's so varied that it's pretty much an unpredictable event. However there is one thing very predictable...........bad results!
 

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Conclusion, the term "brush guns" mean you can hunt in the brush at close range, not shoot through it!


Very well said. clap: I have done some of my own and read about many and that is EXACTLY the conclusion that all the experts (not me) have concluded.

DON"T SHOOT THRU "BRUSH".
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think I got my mind made up on the Ruger Hawkeye, I will need to shoot a few rifles first. There is a All weather 30-06 77 Hawkeye on Gun Broker for $579. Is that a good deal?
 

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It's a decent price, but a new one with a flawless crown, chamber, and never having been overloaded or mishandled is probably not much more.

Ruger is........... well maybe the toughest of all manufacturers on the warranty. Used will have zip for warranty. It's not like a Leupold scope that you can find in the bottom of a river with all the glass broken out and have them fix it for you like new for free.

Be very careful about the decision here. The few hundred bucks you save could cost you severl times that much for a new barrel. Gun have all the same issues as cars when you buy used. It's a big gamble. If you were tinkering and collecting that would be different then wanting to buy something you're going to NEED and use especially this fall.
 
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