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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Black Man Proud Of Confederate Flag

Many heads turned in Ringgold Wednesday when they saw an African-American man dressed in a Confederate soldier's uniform, carrying a Confederate flag.

It wasn't a joke. H.K. Edgerton came to Ringgold to make a bold statement - he opposes city leader's removing the Confederate flag from the city's flag pole.

Edgerton says the Confederate flag is misunderstood, feared and hated because people are trying to be politically correct - which he says desecrates the honor and real meaning of the Civil War era emblem.

"I'm here because your town council climbed into bed with all the politically correct folks who are practicing social, cultural genocide here in the south land of America," Edgerton said.

Edgerton is marching against that cultural genocide as he calls it, and is getting a warm welcome from people in Ringgold who support his fight for the Confederate flag.

Jim Caldwell meet Edgerton carrying the flag and said "it's history, part of history and it don't need to be swept under the rug."

Edgerton is from Asheville, North Carolina, where he's also the immediate past president of the N.A.A.C.P. there. His visit to Ringgold marks the five-year anniversary of the same march he made from Asheville to Austin Texas - 20 miles a day, six days a week.

He says he has no respect for modern day civil rights activists who as he puts it, trash the Confederate flag.

"Just pointing to those scally-wags like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, who climbed into bed with these folks to increase their coffers to continue tainting and disturbing history," Edgerton said.

Two years ago many people packed Ringgold's city hall to protest the move by city leaders to get rid of the Confederate flag. It flies no more on the town poles.

Edgerton says many people don't understand that black men, alongside whites, fought for the Confederacy and the principals it was founded on.

"So here I am, trying to bring an understanding that there was folks who look like me who earned a place of honor and dignity here under this flag. And this flag is just as much for folks who look like me as any white man in the south land of America," Edgerton said.

From: Channel 9 News

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I wonder how many times he has been called Jim Crow and of course worse. I gotta give him credit he understands the PC term.
 

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Bonzo, flags mean different things to different people. To me, the stars and bars represent slavery, sedition, and the basta*dazation of the noble idea of states rights. So it goes....
 

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SledgeHammer said:
Wham,you get all worked up over global warming. It's the same thing.
What is scary, is that (from what I've gathered) Sledge has responsibility for public safety and carries a gun. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
eddie said:
Bonzo, flags mean different things to different people. To me, the stars and bars represent slavery, sedition, and the basta*dazation of the noble idea of states rights. So it goes....
I am surprised that you, an otherwise open minded and somewhat independent thinking person, can profess such ignorance and prejudice.

The Civil War was more about tariffs, repression and the exploitation of southern wealth by unscrupulous northern industrialists than about slavery, although slavery was definitely an important issue.

Did you know that the so-called confederate flag in the news today is not the flag of the Confederate States of America? It is a battle flag pattern adopted by the southern armies during the war.

The Confederate Battle Flag was conceived around July 21, 1861 after First Battle of Bull Run, by General P.G.T.Beauregard to avoid confusion with the Federal Flags. From the time it was first used in battle the following December until the end of the War Between the States, this flag held an honor of those who fought under it and with it.

Southerners proclaim it is pride in the South and its honorable military history that the Confederate battle flag represents. The battle flag represents a way of life, and a noble way of life, an ethic and honor that belong to both blacks and whites of the South. It is the proud military heritage of the patriotic South that the battle flag represents. It represents values or virtues that exist independently of the institution of slavery.

In many ways the citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution. The tenacity with which Confederate soldiers fought underscored their belief in the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. These attributes are the underpinning of our democratic society and represent the foundation on which this nation was built. People need to stop pretending it did not happen, and quit vilifying people who live in the south and want to remember and honor their war dead.

Interestingly, it appears that Lincoln once agreed with the southerners right to succession.
"Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable and most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can may revolutionize and make their own of so many of the territory as they inhabit."

- Abraham Lincoln January 12, 1848.
Sadly... During the latter half of the twentieth century the Confederate Battle Flag was abused by many groups contrary to mainstream America. These "fringe" groups illegitimately adopted the flag, hoping to garner support, while at the same time destroying the honor the flag held. It is due to groups such as the KKK, Aryan Nations, Hitler groups,White Supremacists, Skin Heads, etc. that the perception of the Confederate Battle Flag has been tarnished in the eyes of the impressionable. Now instead of attacking those groups who abused this flag, people are displacing their anger towards the flag itself for some irrational reason.

But more than a century ago, the Hon. Adlai E. Stevenson, of Illinois, then Vice-President of the United States, in his opening remarks as presiding officer at the dedication of the National Park at Chickamauga, and in perfect accord with the sentiment of the occasion and the spirit which led to the establishment of the park as a bond of national brotherhood said, "Here, in the dread tribunal of last resort, valor contended against valor. Here brave men struggled and died for the right as God gave them to see the right."

It would be absurd to assume one side "was wholly and eternally right," while the other side "was wholly and eternally wrong."

For some people, the "Rebel Flag" represents the rebellious spirit personified by examples such as the "Dukes of Hazard." For others it represents valor and duty and the willingness to fight for freedom and defend against aggression. For eddie, "the stars and bars represent slavery, sedition, and the basta*dazation of the noble idea of states rights."

To southerners it represented a time when half of our nation felt it necessary to secede from the Union to avoid intolerable financial exploitation. To northerners it represented an intolerable step towards the division of an indivisible United States. The result was an ocean of spilled blood, the destruction of the south and the beginning of a long journey towards equality by millions of black Americans who were freed into a southern ruin no longer having resources to provide for them and a migration to northern destinations unwilling to embrace their arrival.

To me the Southern Cross represents both the valor and patriotism of those who fought for each side and profound sorrow for the blood that was spilled. But above all provides a reminder and lesson in the failing of intolerance.

I don't think this important relic of our national history should ever be swept under the rug.

:!:
 

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As I said before, flags mean different things to different people. If you want to proudly wave the Confederate flag Bonzo, go for it. It will never, ever be on my front porch. War of Northern agression, indeed. :eek:
 

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Bonzo said:
eddie said:
Bonzo, flags mean different things to different people. To me, the stars and bars represent slavery, sedition, and the basta*dazation of the noble idea of states rights. So it goes....
I don't think this important relic of our national history should ever be swept under the rug.

:!:
It seems to me one could say the same about the KKKs robes.
 

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C'mon eddie, support your local Sledgehammer. It's good to know not all the public safety types are vetted in New Orleans.
 

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I am retired now, but I am the guy that would save Eddie or anyone else from being a victim if I was present when something went down. An armed society is a safer society.
 

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Hey Wham, by the way, I don't take any meds. I was burned 40% in 1986. I died in the hospital because of too much morphine for the pain. After that, I only took Tylenol 3 for the pain. It's an amazing thing. After they brought me back to life, my pain was minimal, go figure. I don't need meds, I have life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wham Bam said:
It seems to me one could say the same about the KKKs robes.
Yes one could! clown: Especially if they were a blathering idiot!

eddie said:
If you want to proudly wave the Confederate flag Bonzo, go for it. It will never, ever be on my front porch. War of Northern agression, indeed. :eek:
Actually eddie... My primary flag is Old Glory and, unlike the Socialist Democrats, I believe in what it stands for. You have the right to do as you wish on your own front porch... Even if you try to offend those in the right.

But, learning to understand others and their differences, seems more in keeping with American values than condemning them out of ignorance and prejudice.

In my opinion, with the exception of the issue of slavery and bringing out the guns when talks were at a stalemate, the north was totally in the wrong. Their actions to bring economic ruin and subservience upon the south through punitive taxation and tariffs left little recourse but to secede. Even so, only 7 of the 15-16 states that might be considered part of the southern economic block seceded before the first shots were fired. With the advent of hostilities, notably the south allowing itself to be provoked into firing upon Fort Sumpter and forcing its surrender with no casualties, Lincoln called for the raising of an army of 75,000 to invade the south. With that development of the imminent hostilities 4 more states seceded to the Confederacy and they began raising armies in earnest. Interestingly, 4 states with slaveholders were either divided or remained loyal to the Union. Maryland and West Virginia, with slave based agricultural economies fought with the north throughout the war and remained slave states afterword until the Constitution was amended to prohibit slavery sometime later. If they had fought for the south the Emancipation Proclamation would have ended slavery in those states during the war.

Anyone who has family who fought in the great Civil War, no matter their race or the color of their uniform should honor their memory with respect. As Adlai E. Stevenson noted, they all fought face to face and hand to hand for what they believed was right.

:!:
 

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Very interesting reads Bonzo. Tup:

As an aside can you tell me if CA ever voted to return to Mexico would there be another War or would you just let it go.
 

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Bonzo said:
Wham Bam said:
It seems to me one could say the same about the KKKs robes.
Yes one could! clown: Especially if they were a blathering idiot!

eddie said:
If you want to proudly wave the Confederate flag Bonzo, go for it. It will never, ever be on my front porch. War of Northern agression, indeed. :eek:
Actually eddie... My primary flag is Old Glory and, unlike the Socialist Democrats, I believe in what it stands for. You have the right to do as you wish on your own front porch... Even if you try to offend those in the right.

But, learning to understand others and their differences, seems more in keeping with American values than condemning them out of ignorance and prejudice.

In my opinion, with the exception of the issue of slavery and bringing out the guns when talks were at a stalemate, the north was totally in the wrong. Their actions to bring economic ruin and subservience upon the south through punitive taxation and tariffs left little recourse but to secede. Even so, only 7 of the 15-16 states that might be considered part of the southern economic block seceded before the first shots were fired. With the advent of hostilities, notably the south allowing itself to be provoked into firing upon Fort Sumpter and forcing its surrender with no casualties, Lincoln called for the raising of an army of 75,000 to invade the south. With that development of the imminent hostilities 4 more states seceded to the Confederacy and they began raising armies in earnest. Interestingly, 4 states with slaveholders were either divided or remained loyal to the Union. Maryland and West Virginia, with slave based agricultural economies fought with the north throughout the war and remained slave states afterword until the Constitution was amended to prohibit slavery sometime later. If they had fought for the south the Emancipation Proclamation would have ended slavery in those states during the war.

Anyone who has family who fought in the great Civil War, no matter their race or the color of their uniform should honor their memory with respect. As Adlai E. Stevenson noted, they all fought face to face and hand to hand for what they believed was right.

:!:
Bonzo, you are a classic and I believe that you are stirring the pot rather than trying to engage in an intellectually honest debate. Let's see, if you can discount slavery and the fact that the South started the war, then it is all the Union's fault! That's like saying that with the exception of Pearl Harbor and Japan's imperialistic desires it was the US' fault for the war in the Pacific. The South was provoked - you are a classic!

The Civil War was a defining conflict for the very young United States. Remember that the Civil War started less than 80 years after the founding of the United States. Teenage growing pains? maybe. Lingering conflicts that date back to the 18th Century? also a possibility. A fundamental clash of economies? absolutely.

Again, if you want to worship at the altar of the Antebellum, go for it. If you feel like you can understand my love of country and sense of patriotism by throwing around the old "socialist democrat" label, then you are being intellectually lazy. If you feel that you have to adopt a particular political philosophy in order to truly love your country, then you are definitely part of the problem and your self professed love of country is a sham.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
eddie said:
If you feel that you have to adopt a particular political philosophy in order to truly love your country, then you are definitely part of the problem and your self professed love of country is a sham.
Excellent eddie! clap: I'm glad you recognize your problem! light:
That is the first step towards your recovery. Tup:

Perhaps you will someday allow H.K. Edgerton and the descendants of Black Confederate soldiers to honor their ancestors sacrifice without the need to offer denigrating comments about their patriotism.

It has been estimated that over 65,000 Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 of these met the enemy in combat. These Black Confederates included both slave and free. The Confederate Congress did not approve blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians), until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story. Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians, they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria, "Will you fight?" Historian Ervin Jordan, explains that "biracial units" were frequently organized "by local Confederate and State militia Commanders in response to immediate threats in the form of Union raids…". Dr. Leonard Haynes, a African-American professor at Southern University, stated, "When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you've eliminated the history of the South."

The Courageous black soldiers who served in the various Northern armies have been much publicized and praised. Their brothers who fought for the South have been almost totally ignored. In actual fact, black Americans marched to war with the Southern armies from the very beginning in early 1861. In contrast, the Federal government refused to allow black men to serve in its ranks until well into the conflict. It was 1863 before the North began using black troops in any large number, and only then after considerable opposition.

Why did black men become soldiers of the south? It is often forgotten that while slavery was a major underlying cause of the Civil War, its abolition was not the original objective of the US government. In his inaugural address of March 4, 1861, President Abraham Lincoln stated that he had "no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." The attempts by overzealous generals such as John C. Fremont and David Hunter to free the slaves in the areas they occupied were promptly countermanded by Lincoln. The man in the White House had enough problems without pushing slave-owning Union loyalist in the critical border states into the arms of secessionists.

Have a nice Easter! :mrgreen:

:)
 

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Sir John, an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. I would annex Mexico and preclude the shells from the land of fruits and nuts from ever considering the vote. Besides if our trend toward socialism persists we need all the taxpayers we can get. ....and then Cuba. Clean up the waters off Key West and points South.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sir John and Skorzeny... FYI...

The Confederate war did include some marginal activity in Mexico and the Western States, possibly even in California, but it appears that Mr. H.K. Edgerton confines most of his public appearances to Dixieland where black participation in the Civil War effort was greatest.

Here is an interesting article about his work restoring an old slave cemetery.

Edgerton Talks About Black History

On a cold, rainy Wednesday morning (February 26), students from elementary grade to middle school stand and listen to H.K. Edgerton, talk about black history on the side of a gently sloping hill in West Asheville.

The students are from a Buncombe County special education school on Sand Hill Road. They’re surrounded by hundreds of stones that mark the graves of slaves and by Edgerton, who’s leading the tour of the graveyard, and who is not bothered in the least by the cold and rain. Edgerton expresses an enthusiasm that the rain cannot dampen and the cold cannot chill. His demeanor ignites the students to ask questions as hands go up to get Edgerton’s attention.

The students have come out as part of Black History month. They have come to hear this outspoken defender of the Confederate Flag who preaches a history of blacks in the old south that is nowhere close to being politically correct.

Betty Patterson is a teacher at one of the schools and helped organize the trip to the slave cemetery that Edgerton began restoring in 2001. Edgerton learned of the graveyard from a man named Don Taylor, whose family is buried in the graveyard next to those of the slaves. Taylor knew the cemetery was in disrepair and gave Edgerton permission to restore the graveyard. Edgerton spent months working on the area and on setting headstones that had long been overturned back in their upright position.

According to another teacher with the group, the children plan to make the graveyard a community project by coming out once a month and to help with the cemetery maintenance.

As the students started to do some work, Edgerton reminded them to be careful with the headstones and not to disturb them when they are raking the leaves away. Tree limbs which have fallen are picked up and put in piles.

Edgerton admits that he hasn’t been to the graveyard since his return from his 1600-mile walk across the south from Asheville to Austin, Texas, which he just completed at the end of last month. His lengthy walk in a Confederate uniform while carrying the Southern Flag was to raise awareness that blacks aided the Southern cause during the “War of Southern Independence,� and that they earned the right to be proud of their Southern heritage.
Tup:foe armed with tanks, missiles and aircraft similar to ours, nor while contending with massed armies of skilled troops on fields of battle. No, we incurred these costs while trying to suppress resistance to our occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, resistance by lightly armed civilians and poorly equipped militias."

"Now the generals even say you can't win these things by military means alone," said David Gompert, principal author of the Rand report.

In early March, a group of 52 retired senior military leaders, including six former members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, announced plans to lobby Congress to overhaul and pump billions of dollars into overseas aid programs.

The generals and admirals want lawmakers to create a corps of civilian workers trained and deployed to work directly with the military and help build education, transportation, economic and political systems in troubled countries.

No one knows better than troops how helpful such allies would be in Iraq, retired Marine Gen. Tony Zinni, one of the group's founders, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee this month.

Zinni's son, a Marine officer serving in Iraq, recently reported that his unit's signature achievement has been helping Iraqis reopen an oil refinery, the general said.

The Marines got the job done, but that's not the kind of work they ought to be doing, the elder Zinni argued.

"We desperately need civilian partners who have the same robust capabilities that we have," he said.

No less an administration leader than Defense Secretary Robert Gates makes essentially the same argument. In a speech last fall to an audience dominated by Army officers, Gates pushed hard for an expansion of America's "soft power," arguing that "the most important military component in the war on terror is not the fighting we do ourselves, but how well we enable and empower our partners to defend and govern themselves."

The Navy, lacking a front-line role in land wars against groups such as al-Qaida, is implementing a new global strategy that recasts it as an arm of diplomacy and a vehicle for humanitarian aid.

More than a year in the making, the strategy argues that the sea service is uniquely positioned to respond to insurgencies. Their ships, Navy leaders argue, can serve as offshore bases from which troops and civilian workers can move inland to quell violence and provide aid without becoming provocative occupiers.

"We believe that preventing wars is as important as winning wars," the chiefs of the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard declared in a statement accompanying release of the strategy.

Such sentiments are a dramatic shift from the complaints about President Bill Clinton's use of the military for nation-building in Bosnia that marked then-Gov. George W. Bush's campaign for presid
 
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