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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone do commercial cabling? Our hotel needs a new wireless layout. We currently have 6 access points and Hilton wants us to get 10. Their proposal comes in 2 parts, one that they have to do, and one that we can do. The part that we can do using an outside company is basically getting all the wiring up so all thats needed is to plug in the access points. They gave us a proposal of doing 1700 feet of cabling spread between 3 floors (using existing holes through the floors, etc) at $5600, $4300 of which is installation. Any one do anything like this? Is it possible for me and the maintenance guys to do this?
 

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MCM,

16 years in structured cabling. Tup: I'm production manager for a communications infrastructure company.

The price seems way out of line. $4300 is a load of labor for that amount of cable, but I haven't walked the building either :mrgreen:

Help me get this right. You need to add 4 AP's and the cable footage is 1700 feet? Or you need to add 10 and the cable footage is 1700 feet?

Is your network fed from one main "closet" or do you have network switches on each floor?
Are the AP locations in common hallways or open areas with drop tile (2X4 acoustical)

Maybe easier, what city are you located in? If your close by I can walk it with you and discuss.

M.C.A.
 

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I just read in the "gas prices" thread and you're in Phoenix?!?!?

I don't the company will spring for a walk-thru of a 10 cable job in Phoenix. :shock: I'll definitely help you as much as I can here though.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your help madcaMAL!

I've got 6 that need to be tossed, and will be replaced with 10. They want us to repalce all the cabling too. Everything comes from a central closet, located on one end of the building. Out hotel is long and thin. I guess they want each access point tied directly into the closet. The longest run is going to be 300 feet. The AP's will be in the drop down ceilings above the hallways that run inbetween the rooms. The quote is basically from AT&T. We have to use them for everything, but the cabling. Looking at the prices, might be cheaper buying you a plane ticket and paying for your services than to go with this quote! wink:

Here's where I am confused. It seems like the cables themselves will cost $1200. But from looking around, it seems that I can get 2000 feet of shielded CAT5e cabling for about $500.
 

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It would be fairly easy to do yourself. Especially if you have vertical chase ways. Not sure if you're replacing the WAPs too and the power requirement for broadcast range based on square footage and structure to assume your drops per floor. Or if there is access to power in the lid if needed.

But all you need to do is buy a fish tape, cutters, and a sharpie. Not sure how many floors the building is or how big the conduit between floor is. But if it's 4" you'll be more than good to go unless there's additional cable in the pipe. If its under 2" pipe then it may get tougher so buy some wire lube if you need to.

If you're going to use one box then this is going to take awhile. Determine how many drops per floor and buy that many boxes of cable. I would buy a minimum of 2 boxes to make this go faster even if one drop per floor. Also, I don't think you necessarily need sheilded cable, but do what you want there, but you'll at least need a riser rated or a plenium rated cable in the drop lid.

Depending on the conduit design to each closet location on each floor such as; having pipe just stubbing room to room, or having the pipe jointed by a junction box. If you are just pipe in the floor, take your boxes to the top floor and label the boxes and the cable end then tape together Make it a two man job by dropping the cable from the top floor to floor to the lower level distribution room while having one manage the boxes and feeds cable and the other pulls between each floor.

Or if pulled through a junction box; still make it a two man job. Run a fish tape from the top floor and have the other guy as a runner directing the tape through each junction box on the way down to the distribution room. At the bottom floor, have the runner label the cable boxes and the cable ends then tape on to the fish tape. Runner tugs on the fish tape end 3 times to signal the puller on the other end to pull. Pull the cable to the desired length down each hall and add some length for good measure, cut and label. However, if you pulled from pipe to pipe and your boxes are on the upper floor just walk down the hall with the boxes to the desired length once again. Zip tie the cable at a few points in the lid of each floor if there's any back tension from gravity pulling the cable down. You might take the additional time to zip tie the cable up off of the lid, but a couple cables shouldn't matter.

Repeat for each floor starting with the longest runs to the shortest runs. Your wire labels can be easily ID with a floor number, cable number on the floor, and cable usage. (5.2.N.W) The 5 is the floor number, 2 is the cable number, N is the identifer for "network" and W is the usage identifer for "WAP". The WAP identifer will be nicer to manage at the distribution panel since the labels will likey differ from the existing cables.


Hope that helps and good luck
 

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Wish I was a little closer. I'd help you get it done. I'm betting you can manage without me! Tup:
 

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MCM,

Sounds like a pretty simple install, and if the longest run is 300' then it shouldn't be too bad at all. I figure if the pathway from your network room is piped with sleeves and conduit you shouldn't have to pay more than $2080 for labor. I'm basing that off of two workers, two days at 8 hour shifts at about $65/hr. That is based on ALL drop tile ceiling and clean pathways between floors and walls. Sounds like your bid is out of line, but that's to be expected from AT&T. $300 per cable labor seems right to me. $1200 :eek:

If you do it yourself, you should be up to snuff on local codes! Supporting the cable every 4/5 feet maximum, plenum rated cable if the ceiling is an air plenum return (sometimes it's even required when it's a ducted return)and keeping in tact the smoke compartment and firewall ratings. Floors have a fire rating too, so the riser pathway for comm needs to be fire blocked as well if they are core holes.

I would imagine you won't have to worry about power as most WAP's are now POE (power over ethernet) and don't require external power supplies. Cisco or 3COM maybe?

As far as the cable goes, a standard CAT5e or CAT5E cable should suffice. Unless your running between transformers, close to ballasts on lighting or running parrallel to hi voltage power there is no need for it unless the MFG of the equipment calls for it. I can get 1000' of good unshielded CAT5E for $204.00 and that's from a major high end MFG.

(I have no idea of your State and local codes! I'm good to go here with the State of Wa.)

Big Worm's gotcha covered on the how too. I'm guessing you're an electrician, right BW? :p

If I provide any more information I'll need your billing address for the consulting fee :D JK
 

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Systems integrator. I've done my share of field work though. I still get out there every now and then. My last major equipment install was the US district courthouse downtown Seattle a few years ago. I just reapplied for my journeyman card today after 3 years for a special project that LIL' CORKY got Tup: . It's pretty fun stuff when you have a good team.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The wires will be next to all the cieling lights (with ballasts) and all that, so I'm thinking shielded would be better. But looking again, we have some A/C ducts at the ends of the hallways. Might have to go around that. Everything else is drop ceiling. After some thoughts, I don't think its a project I want to take on. I think if a professional company did it, they'd do it according to cose and all that. Plus if something goes wrong, they'll know how to fix it.

Despite this being a fishing website, its amazing the depth of knowledge on these boards! Thanks!
 
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