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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for a new daily driver/tow rig for my pilot house Defiance. It is 10 miles 1 way to work. I tow to the salt around 50 days a year, and I plan go from Issaquah to Coronet Bay or Sekieu/ Neah a lot.
-Any input from board members as to whether or not I should go diesel or gas?
-I need a 3/4 ton, because loaded the package is right at 5000 lbs.
-Is a 10 mile commute 20 round trip going to kill a diesel prematurely?
-Will he mileage from a gas be terrible when towing the boat?
-Sure like the resale and longevity of the diesel. I plan to have the truck for 7 or 8 years.
-Looking used 2-4 years old or less....And thinking Duramax F-250.
-Thanks for the help!
-Andy
 

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Short aren't any better for a gas engine than they are for a diesel. My '07 Cummins 5.9 is close to warmed up on a 10 mile trip in the Winter. Summer 10 miles trip is fully warmed. If you're worried,make sure you take a long trip once a week to burn off any condensation. In the Winter,run a block heater for a few hours before you leave for work. Don't expect much heat on a 10 mile trip if you don't use a block heater. I'm just getting warm air at 7-8 miles with my truck

A 3/4 ton isn't necesarily needed for 5000lbs. My brother in law tows my North River Seahawk (right at 5000) with his '06 1/2 ton Chevy with the 5.3 gas engine. It'll pull Stevens Pass at 55mph with no problems. Its very stable and tows my boat well. Most all the new 1/2 tons will be rated to tow almost 2x the weight of your boat.

For 5000lbs its a toss up. Any of the gas engines will pull 5000lbs with ease. Diesel will pull it a little easier. Gas is cheaper than diesel right now,and will most likely be for a long time.

Diesel trucks need more maintanance. My Cummins takes 12qts of oil every 7500 miles and a fuel filter every 10,000. If you don't pay attention to the fuel filter in a diesel,you WILL be dead on the side of the road.

Re-sale on a diesel is a wash IMO. You might get back an extra 5000 back over a gas engine at trade in,but you'll be paying at least that for the diesel premium up front.

If my wife didn't buy a 33' fifth wheel,I'd still be driving a gas truck.
 

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I would say that not letting a diesel reach operating temps,not changing oil and air filter elements would be more harmful than a short commute and also would be same whether gas or diesel,24ft defiance ? Towing the distances you are planning I would opt for the diesel. If I could of afforded a diesel when I bought my truck I would have done it but the funds just were not there,the hemi in my 3/4ton Dodge seems to do fine though towing my 21ft Arima which is pretty close to where your at weight wise I wouln't want any thing less though.I have not checked my mileage while towing so I cant be much help there but no matter diesel or gas it's going to drop. :)
 

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Andy - duramax is in the Chev; Ford has the 6.4 powerstroke I believe. Either way, with the miles you are driving it is not going to make sense financially for a diesel. You are going to pay 4,000-5,000 up front for the diesel motor and then; at lest here in Lynnwood Diesel is around $3.60 gallon while gas is 3.15. With you commute of 20 miles per day using typical average figures of 15mpg gas; 19 deisel (and thats being generous to both) then your weekly costs are:

Gas - 100 miles / 15mpg * $3.15 = 20.99
Diesel - 100 miles / 19mpg * 3.60 = 18.94
So with using your simple commute the diesel saves $2 week making the ROI (return on investment) on a diesel for you is around 2400 weeks :eek: , or 46.1 years :shock: but that is only using the simple commute. Granted it will be much less with more miles traveled. The only point is lots of people jump on diesels thinking they are the cats meow but in reality, unless you plan to tow a LOT then they are actually more expensive in the long run.

However for a diesel to truly gain reliability, mileage etc you need to get the cylinder temps hot and just basic driving does not fully accomplish this. Under a load with the boat you will see significant savings however you dont seem to be planning to make many long trips. The cost versus resale of the deisel is a wash as others have mentioned. I have an 01' diesel and got tired of the $100 fuel stops so I went back to gas and I dont miss it. Gas works for me but everyone is different. If you are planning a bigger boat, or large trailer than a diesel may make sense if you are going to change lifestyles and start travelling etc. The maint costs on gas are a little less as well....

Just my .02

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sport Jet, thanks for the clarification on the Power stroke vs Duramax issue. The trucks I have looked at and test driven are turbo charged 6.0 liter powerstroke diesels.
I guess one of the concerns I have is that the diesel engine will last for many more miles than a gas at least 100k more, and I plan to own for a long time. -I'm a buy and hold type of guy.
-Is the running gear, brakes, drive train, cooling system, etc... on a 1/2 ton v8 adequate enough to hang with the 5000 lbs. I am pulling around? I am pulling it with a v8 Dakota now, and though the v8 does ok, there would be big trouble without the disc trailer brakes - not the safest and most ideal of situations.I have been short hopping from Issaquah to Shilshole or Armeini and just running up the sound to save wear on the rig and my stress level.
-I will have his boat for a few years and he one thing I DON'T want to do is"under truck" for the size of the boat.
-Yes, with gas prices being what they are of course fuel consumption is a big concern.
--How much percentage do you guys lose mileage wise when trailering with gas and diesel rigs? I know my Dakota drops about 5-7 mpg when I hook up the boat.
-Thanks all, for the input! I appreciate all of the advice so far.
 

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I hope i dont get flogged for this first comment but.....

If you are thinking of getting the 6.0L ford... RUN!, dont walk away!!! RUN!! Those were very problematic engines for ford. Im sure there will be someone who comes on here and comments on how thiers is great... and thats good to hear. But, the truth of the matter is that engine had a LOT of problems, and thats why ford doesnt use it anymore. I know personally of 5 people who have all had issues with that motor/tubo's failing in their 06's...

Ok, so heres my take. If you step up to a 1/2 ton from a dakota you arent going to be gaining much at all. My boat weighs 3860# on the scales, and I used to tow it with a 2004 1/2 ton chevy 4x4 w the 5.3L engine. It was "adequate" power to tow. I felt relatively safe, but it felt like the brakes were the weak link, and also steep inclines really worked the tranny. Short trips to the local launch, no prob.. Longer trips, I felt a little underpowered.

I traded it in for a Diesel 3/4 ton GMC, and the difference is night and day. Ive towed the boat, and had my Camper on the back, and no issues at all. with a 1/2 ton, there would be no way i could do that.

Comming up the hill on I-90 @ vantage the 1/2 ton struggled to maintain 55mph. the Diesel does 70+ and stays in 6th gear..

I dont think you can qualify going a diesel or gas in a "whats cheaper to drive" comparrison. Neither are a commuter car, so It comes down to which is going to be the best for safety and longevity. If you are really going to keep it for 7+years, and you plan on towing longer distances where there are some steeper grades or windy roads where you are on and off the brakes a lot, I think a Diesel is the better option. You'll pay more up front, get more when you sell, but it wont be tired and wore out at 100k miles.
 

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I too have a Dakota that "works" for what I need it for. Given your situation with a larger boat I am not really a fan of towing anything with 1/2 tons if they are more than about 3000 lbs. I prefer the 3/4 for larger axles, brakes etc and totally agree with your logic. You mentioned it would be a 7-8 year truck so I am not sure how you are going to put so many miles on it to warrant the diesel although you are correct in that a diesel should yeild 350-500K miles compared to a gas engine at 200-250K normally.

I am not at all a fan of the 6.0 Ford deisel, neither is Ford as they already discontinued them. That being said however there are some very satisfied owners, I just havent met one yet. My friend who pulls a 28' boat and also a large 5th wheel is a diesel nut. He had his 6.0 for 1 year and said enough is enough with the fuel problems. He is now a Duramax guy and I have to admit that it is the nicest truck I have ever driven. Comfortable, more power than you ever need etc.

As for economy, a gas motor is going to drop at least 3-5mpg towing where a diesel will proably be about 1/2 that. Again it depends on how many miles you plan to tow?

Fun thread especially when we get to talk about spending someone elses money :mrgreen:

If you are set on the diesel then take a look at the Duramax/Allison combo ... it is awesome. If not then the Cab on the F250 is still my favorite (I'm a club cab kind of guy)
 

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I normally get about 19-19.5 on the freeway with my '07 Cummins. Towing my Seahawk (5000lbs) I get about 13.5-14

If you buy a diesel thinking you'll get 19-20 MPG towing your boat,you'll be sadly dissapointed.

I'd stay far away from the 6.0 Powerstroke as well. Like was mentioned,theres a reason Ford only ran them for a few years. The 6.0 has cost Ford millions opon millions of dollars in warranty costs trying to fix them. I read on a Ford site awhile back that the 6.0 had close to 100 different recalls and TSBs.
 

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I have a Chevy 2500HD with the Duramax and Allison. It is a workhorse and very comfortable too. 98,000 miles and not one issue except the cost of maintenance. I commute 125 miles a day right now and average 19.8 miles per gallon. When I tow my 4500 # sled it drops to about 15, when I tow my friends Seasport it drops to about 12. Keep in mind you will not just be towing weight but the added wind resistance of a tall boat.
Last year coming back from the Anacortes Derby towing into heavy wind I had a hard time maintaining 55 mph and I think I may have got 5 mph. It was like towing up a steep hill for over an hour.
 

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If I were in the market for a truck, I'd be looking at the Dodge with lifetime engine and powertrain warranty.
If you don't plan on keepin' the rig for a long time, this probably won't benefit you, because the warranty is non transferrable......
 

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I am a Ford fan, but stay away from the 6.0 Ford diesel. It has way too many problems. The 7.3 has a good reputation and the new 6.4s seem to be doing OK. It would be hard to beat the Cummins in the Dodges for an engine, but I am not sure how the rest of the truck holds up. I have heard good things about the Duramax, but I have no experience with them.

Also, if you are thinking brand new, be aware that the MPG for the new diesel trucks has dropped fairly significantly. The 2008 emissions standards went up and the fuel efficiency has gone down for diesels. This is across the board for all three makes.
 

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DBAppraiser said:
There was a guy who used to post on this board a lot and he was warned about the 6L Powerstroke and bought one anyway. Seems that he didn't have it very long and it was in the shop. I think that individual resides up on Whidbey Island. wink:
Wasn't he going to move to Missouri?
 

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Hunter P said:
DBAppraiser said:
There was a guy who used to post on this board a lot and he was warned about the 6L Powerstroke and bought one anyway. Seems that he didn't have it very long and it was in the shop. I think that individual resides up on Whidbey Island. wink:
Wasn't he going to move to Missouri?
Too funny.
 

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X5fishinmachine said:
If I were in the market for a truck, I'd be looking at the Dodge with lifetime engine and powertrain warranty.
If you don't plan on keepin' the rig for a long time, this probably won't benefit you, because the warranty is non transferrable......
N/A on the diesel either...
 

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SportJet said:
Hunter P said:
DBAppraiser said:
There was a guy who used to post on this board a lot and he was warned about the 6L Powerstroke and bought one anyway. Seems that he didn't have it very long and it was in the shop. I think that individual resides up on Whidbey Island. wink:
Wasn't he going to move to Missouri?
Too funny.
theres a reason those 6.0L diesel fords are priced so low.... sick:
 

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The ISB Cummins is a cool motor but the 4 door cab has lame room in the back seat. Fords cab rocks and the 6.4 is getting good reviews; stay away from the 6.0; GM has the best all around combo IMHO with the Duramax and allison tranny. No fears with this set up and the cab is comfortable and roomy. If I were in the market for a diesel this one wins hands down. Next Ford and then Dodge. (I owned a dodge and hated the lame Xtra cab unless its a mega monster Tup: )

For gas motor ... the Hemi is SWEET. Again the cab needs improvement ...then the Ford F250 is all around cool. Chev is about the same IMO again.

One thing we havent entered is the ultimate...

MEGACAB baby :mrgreen: Toss this into the mix and forget the rest. Until you have sat in one there is NO comparison. This cab absolutely is awesome. Combine it with the ISB cummins and your set. Dodge is finally giving this powertrain a real tranny for automatic so it is about as good as you can get. However....your gonna plunk down 45g's on this bad boy.

For more realistic choice its the Gas motor for me these days. Fun to dream though :mrgreen:
 

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Just so you guys know, I have a 2003 6.0 Powerstroke and I have never had any trouble with it at all. But to be honest Ford has had enough trouble with them that they have already dropped them. I wish I could afford the newer one but I am now on a fixed income and am stuck with what I now have.
 

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I personally have a 2000 Ford F-250 as my daily driver for a round trip commute of 8 mile :eek: I know I probably get less MPG than others just because I do warm it up before I leave for work but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I would agree with most everyone here about staying away from the 6.0 Ford. One of my friends is a Ford Mechanic and they refer to it as the Powerchoke with all the porblems they are having. The new Fords look nice but I will wait a few years to see how they pan out. Chevy makes a nice diesel, but I am not fond of an Isuzu engines. Their tranny is the best in the biz in my humble opinion. The Dodge didn't have a crew cab when I bought mine so they were out even though I like the Cummins engine. You can always find a nice deal on a 7.4 powerstroke still and with anything under 100,000 miles the engine is just broke in. I have 150,000 on mine now and the only thing major I hae done is replace the tranny to a higher performance one. If I could build the ultimate it would be the same year Ford body I have with a cummins engine and the allison tranny. Just my $.02
 
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