This guy just made legend status

Discussion in 'NFR - Politics! Discussion and Debates' started by powder, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. powder

    powder Active Member

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    [​IMG]
  2. WidgeonmanGH

    WidgeonmanGH Active Member

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    If that is real it is awesome! clown: :D

    Ron Paul is unelectable kook of the first order, but that picture is spectacular!
  3. powder

    powder Active Member

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    I always find it weird that when faced with someone who follows the Constitution to the absolute T, no one wants him in office. To each their own i guess. I supposed that's why there's more than one candidate. Have fun voting for Obama if Paul gets the GOP nomination i guess? Or in that case will you vote independent? clown:

    It's also interesting to point out, that if Romney gets the nomination, and Paul still runs as an independent, Obama wins. If Paul gets the nomination, he gets his independent votes, and most of Romneys, with a REAL chance at defeating Obama. Anyone else gets the nomination besides Ron Paul, Republicans lose. What's more important, Obama out or someone getting the nomination that doesn't have a chance to win?
  4. WidgeonmanGH

    WidgeonmanGH Active Member

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    I appreciate some of Paul's stands on the constitution and some of his fiscal policies. That is what has got him where he is, but it is his crazy forign policy ideas, and bizzaro positions on drugs etc that make him unelectable. I would love to see some of the political commercials that show what the inner city would look like with Ron Paul's positions on drugs.

    I am no longer a Republican, but a political athiest. He has his appeal but you just can't ignore the crazy stuff. I think there is a very good chance he runs a third party race and gives Obama 4 more years. By the way wouldn't he be older than the age RR was when he left? :shock: Who would his vp be Alex Jones?

    I hate the choices we have, but presidential elections do not matter in this state in any event. (at least from a conservative point of view) King county votes for WA when it comes to president, good luck ever having a conservative get those votes. :roll:
  5. powder

    powder Active Member

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    I guess when it comes down to it, foreign policy and the war on drugs are "moral issues" to most. Some are scared that if we stop paying countries to stay out of other countries, chaos will ensue. Some are scared that if we stop giving aid to the Arab nations, they will attack Israel. Others think for some odd reason, that we should be in the middle of every little conflict that happens everywhere, when our country is falling apart at the seams. Real unemployment is nearly 20% and every day there's more and more layoffs. People are scared of change and "what if"'s.

    The war on drugs is a huge failure. You can't regulate and throw money at something that's being done illegally. I don't see how anyone thought it was a good idea. Ron Paul believes that you don't need a law to tell you not to do cocaine or heroin. I sure don't, you probably don't. If it's legal all of a sudden, i'm not going to do it.
  6. WidgeonmanGH

    WidgeonmanGH Active Member

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    Really? If you say something over and over does it become true? On what grounds do we say it was a failure? I think the failure was to call it that because it implies that it has a moment where we can declare victory.

    If you want to know if we are winning or not, then just ask the question, If drugs were legal would there be more or less addicts? Do you really think that more addicted people will do less crime? Do you think the social fabric of our country which is horrendous will some how get better with more addicts, more children born to them? I would be all for legalizing drugs IF mandatory permanent sterilization and no possibility for adoption was a prerequisite. That actually would create a short term painful solution, but it would be a solution.

    I am attracted to a non-interventionist foreign policy however, peace does not come about because someone decides to leave their neighbor alone. Peace comes from strength. Always has, always will. The Pax Romana, and the Pax Americana have come because of overwhelming strength. You really can not produce a time in the history of the world where that was not the case. So should we step down and return to fortress America, (I am sure unemployment would go away as we lay off all those soldiers), the only question is who will take our place, not the world will be more peaceful. So I wonder, in Ron Paul's mind, who he wants to lead the world as the USA takes a break? Who do you think would? I suspect China is currently applying for the job.

    Paul has been interesting but now comes the fade into the background or head for the third party solution. Will be interesting to see which he chooses and what the Paulistinians will do with his choice.
  7. TheHunt

    TheHunt New Member

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    Ron Paul's foreign policy will cause chaos. We pull out of the countries we are currently in and other countries will invade or start things up.

    But his fiscial policy is right on target in my opinion. Obama, Clinton and the Bush's spent way tooo much money. Many want the USA to become a socialist nation and I am not for that.

    It is not if, but when the USA becomes bankrupt what will happen? Revolution? The nation will be split from the food producers and the food consumers? Not sure...
  8. powder

    powder Active Member

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    The war on drugs is a huge failure whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs are available when and where ever people want to get them and it's not changing. We're spending billions to fail, when we could have tax revenue from marijuana especially. I personally do not believe that ending the war on drugs will create more people addicted to them. As i said, i will not start doing drugs no matter what happens. Could i right now, even though they're illegal? You bet i could. So could you, any day of the week. If we put half that money into educating our young people on what they do to you, we could be better off whether they're legal or not. All making them illegal did was add some discression. Druggies are going to be druggies and sober people will be sober people.

    Why don't all countries lead the world? That's the idea of the UN is it not? Vote on actions to take in certain situations?
  9. powder

    powder Active Member

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    It would have to be a really powerful country to have the balls to do anything.

    Clinton left office with a surplus. I'm not for a socialist nation either, thus the reason i want the socialist out of office.

    The nation is basically bankrupt. We're paying interest on our loans, barely. Revenue and deep cuts is what we need, but our current President and Congress can't get it done. I guess the only way to find out what's going to happen is to wait and see who gets the nom, and see how he does in november.
  10. WidgeonmanGH

    WidgeonmanGH Active Member

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    MJ will be legalized in 10 years easy, probably in the second Obama administration, then we will indeed see even more of what it means to rot from the inside out.
    By the same standard the war on theft has been completely lost, so maybe they should just go ahead and make it legal. Prostitution, child molestation, you name it, law enforcement does not eliminate these things, rather it attempts to keep it at a level in which the society can still function. Drug enforcement is the same thing. That drugs are everywhere does not mean that we are not having an impact. Mandatory permanent sterilization as a prerequisite and I might vote for it.

    Ah yes the UN. the place where Iran can be chair of the human rights committee. Of course some crisis would require someone to take charge temporarily. Funny how Sci Fi often predicts future events.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNAHjsAnTd4
  11. powder

    powder Active Member

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    There's zero logic in that. Your rights end where mine begin. Joe schmoe doing mj in his house does not effect me whatsoever. Same with heroin and coke. It could be argued that once behind the wheel of a car it does however. It could also be argued that alcohol should be in the same category, same with Vicodin, percocet, oxycodon, or any other pain killer that gives people relief from ailments when prescribed, but can be abused just as easily as heroin or coke and put peoples lives in danger. Do you think those should be banned too, or should people have the right to choose? Just so we're clear, i'm not for anyone doing heroin or coke. I seriously doubt there's a medical use for it. Someone close to me was doing coke a few years back, i know how it effects people. Would i wish it on anyone? No, i wouldn't, but i don't think the federal government has the right to act like my parent and make my personal choices for me or any of it's citizens for that matter.

    In 2 of your other 3 examples, there is a clear line showing rights being violated. The third, well i'll just throw out there that i wouldn't partake in prostitution either if it was legal.
  12. WidgeonmanGH

    WidgeonmanGH Active Member

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    Is government only about rights and privacy? Does government have a responsibility to create a civil society? The constitution limits the powers of government but the purpose of the constitution was to create something. It created an orderly and productive environment for an individuals rights to exist in thus insuring a just, productive, and moral society.

    A private individual doing pot in their own home does not harm me in the least, if I do not have to support them financially, if they do not steal to get thier pot, and if they do not have children or reproduce. However, if they leave their home while impared, if they requrire public assistance, or if they have children then their freedom is impacting more than just them. It impacts the society as a whole. Go to a public school and sit it with kids. After a week or two you would be able to easily point out those most likely impacted by drugs or alcohol in their home. That does not only impact those kids but it impacts all the other kids who are also trying to learn. Thus it impacts the tax payers ability to educate a future generation. Drugs are not the only thing that impacts families, but they are a big one! If you have ever seen a 9 year old girl load her pockets from school lunch because mommy and daddy are so stoned/drunk they can't/don't provide food and the 9 year old feels the weight of trying to feed them, then this rights stuff kind of pales. (that is a true story by the way) Yes the authorities are involved so the kids bounce from grandma, to mom, to dad, to etc etc etc. depending on whose turn it is to get checked. It is a mess and legalizing drugs would make this more common not less.

    The government is involved in every single example that you mentioned, by way of regulation. Why regulate them? Because of their addictive nature or their brain and behavior altering impacts. Do people who are high do things that they wouldn't do if they weren't? Of course they do. Do the things they do make our society better or worse?

    The Federal Government does not have the right to be your parent, but it seems to me that if it does not protect civilization, then it becomes useless. Declare freedom with all drugs, freedom with all the "moral" vices, get out of the family business (let churches, etc decide what marriage is or isn't) and do you think a country like ours would be created? I guarantee you it would not even be sustained. It would become Mad Max so fast it would be scary.

    That is not the world I want for my children or grandchildren.
  13. powder

    powder Active Member

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    You are right with the financial support of druggies. I agree with that. That's where drug testing to receive aid comes in imo. I doubt that is a Ron Paul belief, but i don't think he would oppose it.

    You're arguing semantics with me. There is a clear, cut and dry line, between where my rights end and yours begin. In cases where you are impeding my rights, i welcome the government's intervention.

    In your story about the 9 year old girl, that happens with alcohol, cigarettes and hookers. We could also assume it happens with fishing and hunting gear, or anything that someone can enjoy too much and make poor choices on what is necessity or not. In any case where a child is put last, that parent doesn't deserve to have said child. I also never disagreed with castrating those so stupid that we don't want them breeding.

    You seem to think i'm saying let anarchy rule. Ever read the Bill of Rights? I believe that covers this entire concern, as i never said get rid of it, or change it. I just want it followed.
  14. WhiteDog

    WhiteDog Active Member

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    You mention children and reproduction twice. Please explain how a person doing pot in the privacy of their own home whom happens to have children harms you or anyone else? Assume 1) pot is legal, 2) the pot is grown by that person or they acquire it just like legal alcohol, and lastly 3) they neither need nor desire your assistance in any way.
  15. WhiteDog

    WhiteDog Active Member

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    Chances of Paul being nominated by the GOP? Near zero. Chances of Paul winning against Obama as an Independent? Near zero. Chance of Paul winning against Obama in any scenario? Near zero. He's got some interesting ideas but reality is that probably 90% of the voters recognize him as a lunatic. Romney/Rubio for the win. wink:
  16. powder

    powder Active Member

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    Romney will lose, even if he gets the nomination.
  17. dosays

    dosays New Member

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    Paul on a third party ticket will see to that! :(

    <--- Patriots Out!
  18. powder

    powder Active Member

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    It's been said already. Pete and Repeat went out on a boat, Pete fell out, who was left?

    If you don't think i'm patriotic or that i love my country... well, this is the internet. False opinions run rampant, so what should i expect.
  19. dosays

    dosays New Member

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    ---> Look Who is standing WITH Obama. :lol:

    [​IMG]

    <--- 3rd party Out!
  20. Salmo g.

    Salmo g. Active Member

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    Widgeon,

    You views on drugs and the war on drugs are delusional. I have friends, a married couple, that each have PhDs, responsible even prestigious jobs, raised two kids that both graduated from Harvard, one becoming a teacher and the other a doctor. These friends smoke pot, although not as regularly as they drink wine, and they've used LSD when they were younger and it was more readily obtained. Of course, by their education they are unusually well informed about drugs of all kinds - they both work in health care. The upshot is that you are so clueless regarding your thoughts on drugs. The war on drugs is an expensive and failed effort. Drug education and rehab for those who want it are the far more worthwhile alternatives. Legalizing any and all drugs would have very little measurable effect on the overall rate of drug use by society. Making drugs illegal affects very few people regarding their personal decision to use drugs or not. I can only recommend that you expend your energy and effort on causes that may produce a worthwhile benefit. Fighting in the war on drugs is a total waste of time and money. Sorry. Just how it is.

    Oh, and Ron Paul is politically entertaining. I took a politics quiz, and he finished second to Obama as the candidate most aligned with my views - strange world.

    Sg