Seattle Police shot another knife holder ...

Discussion in 'NFR - Politics! Discussion and Debates' started by jimh, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. jimh

    jimh Well-Known Member

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    Seattle Police shot another knife holder ... I wonder when they are going to train the Seattle Police in non-lethal methods and/or get rid of the ones who are untrainable. Two cops shot multiple times at the person who called them for help.

    Really a shame but seems like a pattern.

    Seattle Police Department releases audio after 2 officers shoot, kill woman
    Seattle police fatally shoot black mother of four who they say confronted officers with a knife
     
  2. fishslave

    fishslave Well-Known Member

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    Un-fricken believable.
     
  3. wolfkill220

    wolfkill220 Well-Known Member

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    hmm seems pretty simple mam put down the knife ,she puts down the knife end of story.simple problem simple solution.
     
  4. fishslave

    fishslave Well-Known Member

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    It's not simple for those who are mentally ill. A taser would have done the job.
     
  5. Salmo g.

    Salmo g. Well-Known Member

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    A taser might have done the job. I read that tasers only work 60% of the time, making it a calculated risk in a close quarters situation. Further, a person within taser distance is also within knife striking distance. However, it might be a safe assumption (another calculated risk) that a mentally messed up woman is not an expert in knife attacks. Given the bare facts, the police made the choice that protocol would suggest. That is, a protocol that calls for officers to look out for their own safety as well as the public's.

    A pattern that keeps repeating is that people who are mentally messed up and people on drugs are pretty consistent in not complying with orders to drop a weapon or keep their hands in sight. As long as that is the case, people in those situations are going to be shot.

    I think this was an unfortunate, but not unexpected incident. Allowing mentally incompetent people to be in charge of their own lives looks like a high risk situation.
     
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  6. jimh

    jimh Well-Known Member

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    sg, I'm surprised that you are defending police. I guess because they are in Seattle. If it was a different city, they'd be racist, right?
     
  7. fishslave

    fishslave Well-Known Member

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    Salmo,, Did you miss the statement in the second article stating that the Justice Department’s investigation concluded that the Seattle Police Department, one of the 40 largest local police forces nationwide, engaged in an unconstitutional pattern or practice of excessive force? That was under the Obama Admin, so it should meet with your approval.

    She was a small woman, and likely to be stopped by a taser. There is little risk into trying it when there are two officers, one with a handgun ready if it didn't work.

    Then there is the issue of the "untreated" mental illness. You'd think in this liberal state that untreated mental illness wouldn't be rampant here, but it's bad enough for state republicans to make it a campaign issue!

    I guess safe injection sites are more important to libs in Seattle. What a hell hole the libs are creating.
     
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  8. wolfkill220

    wolfkill220 Well-Known Member

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    yes it is unfortunate that it happened.but you need to remember trained or not it only takes one lucky swipe with the knife to inflict serious or deadly harm.I for one support the officers for when we stop supporting them then the criminals win.
     
  9. fishslave

    fishslave Well-Known Member

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    Wolfkill, I won't support officers that break the law or use excessive force when it isn't called for.

    And just so you know, it isn't police officers that keep criminals from winning. Cops normally don't show up until AFTER a crime and the criminal is long gone. More often than not, it's the average citizen that keeps criminals from winning.

    As to your knife comment, that's out in left field. If two trained male officers can't subdue a small woman with a knife (even the use of their baton would have worked!) and have to resort to shooting and KILLING her, something is seriously wrong with them.
     
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  10. jd39

    jd39 Active Member

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    Have to agree.
    To me it's simple in theory if not practice. Good cops deserve our respect and support. Bad cops are a cancer and need to be stopped as quickly as possible.
    Each incident should be taken on its own merits. I think some shootings have been justified and some haven't.
    This particular instance I not sure. She was a clear threat but as others have pointed out two cops probably could have subdued her without guns.
    The instances where cops open fire with no clear threat, just a perceived one are the ones I disagree with. Cops in those instances keep getting acquitted though.
     
  11. jimh

    jimh Well-Known Member

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    One of the audios hears a cop say taze her. The response ... I don't have one. Obviously, that's the smoking "tazer".
     
  12. Salmo g.

    Salmo g. Well-Known Member

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    Jim,

    The surprise in on you then. I'm a seeker of truth and always willing to go where it leads.

    FS,

    I know Seattle had an issue regarding excessive force. The Department has done a lot to address it, but most solutions, if there is one, aren't perfect. Making assumptions that correlate an unrelated event to a D administration is flawed, equal opportunity critic and praiser that I am.

    Neither of the cops had a taser, so that wasn't an option. I don't know if they had a baton on their duty belt, but yes, that does seem like it would have been an effective counter-measure. But it does require close quarter combat, I guess you'd call it. Maybe Department protocol is to avoid close quarter combat when possible, since it significantly increases the potential of injury to officers.

    Mental competency, although related, is a separate issue. The cops have zero authority to influence state resources allocated to dealing with mental patients in the state. I agree that a problem exists; as I pointed out in my earlier post, a lot of police shootings involve someone who is either mentally incompetent or on drugs, which appears to be at the root of failure to comply with the officer's order. Not much we or anyone can do about that.

    Sg
     
  13. spokey9

    spokey9 Member

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    Pretty easy in hindsight to say the officers could have done something differently. Truth is they said the woman's address had been flagged previously for increased danger to officers. Combine that with mental illness and a weapon, I can understand why they reacted as they did. This could've been avoided if the woman dropped the knife when ordered to do so. Whether the SPD has been found as using excessive force in the past doesn't have much bearing in this case, unless there's more info that we don't know. This address was marked high risk and the woman was unstable with the means to injure or kill an officer. Her size or lack thereof plays no part in my opinion, I've known plenty of people that got their butt whooped by smaller individuals.
     
  14. jimh

    jimh Well-Known Member

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    sg, pretty undisputed "truth" that they thought taser was the right call. That's on them that they didn't choose to carry one that day. Then, why did they feel they had to escalate the situation to gunfire instead of just retreating?

    It's a stretch to say they had to immediately remove the threat from her house when she was the one who called them. They simply could have called for backup. Apparently a training issue as I said in my original post.

    spokey9, seriously, you think they just had to shoot this small woman because she was going to take them both? Try harder.
     
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  15. fishslave

    fishslave Well-Known Member

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    You both are not reading the links. In a short statement accompanying the recording, police said that both police officers involved “were equipped with less lethal force options, per departmental policy.”

    In addition, are you forgetting another important thing? They are supposed to be trained in the use of their firearm. Easy enough to shoot her without killing her AND her unborn child.

    “Hey, get back! Get back!” an officer shouts, a call echoed by the other officer, before a volley of gunshots are heard.

    Next???