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WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

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WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby coaster » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:32 am

The WDFW ‘creel reports’ website page shows this information for the ENTIRE month of September, 2013, for Area 13:

--144 boats checked
--284 fishermen checked

Fish totals that they caught:
--9 Pinks
--6 Chinook
--3 Coho

Is Area 13 a dead zone?
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby fishslave » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:20 am

Capt. Downriggin says it isn't.

I say it is.

I won't waste the time and gas.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby corkiedrifter » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:51 am

I haven't seen a fish checker all year in 13 at Zittles or Luhrs. It shows they were there, but if you look it is mostly week days with an occasional Sunday thrown in. We went 17/23 on Chinook in September at the Green Can...I would say except for the Coho and Blackmouth it is a dead zone now. wink:
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Captain Downriggin' » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:22 pm

fishslave wrote:Capt. Downriggin says it isn't.

I say it is.

I won't waste the time and gas.


Fishslave... You up for a little wager? I'll pay all your expenses, we use my gear, and fish the spot(s) exactly how I would (or we can use my boat). I'll bet we put 30-keeper blackmouth in the boat by the end of October.. You have to be available to fish everyday... Name your price! If I win, I get the wager plus reimbursement.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Et al,

Yep.... absolute waste of time.. I won't tell about 2-limits of blackmouth this morning. Therefore, whatever you do DON'T, and I mean DON'T, come down here and fish! I would just stay in MA11 with the other 600-boats (maybe more) competing with all those anglers. And while most of those summer fish are shooting straight through and you guys are scratching your head wondering why the fishing is slow or where the fish are... Guess what? There's over 50K Chinook annually headed to the hatcheries down here.

If people took the time to learn where the fish are month to month they wouldn't be saying it is a dead zone. Now, if I were a bean counter, looking at those numbers I would say it is a dead zone too, but the reality of these numbers are only a small portion compared to that of other marine areas; hence, the small numbers of fish caught. If I throw the 10-percenter rule in... I'd say it just about right.

As easy as salmon fishing is, there more to throwing gear in the water...

I'll go on to say this year was perhaps the best year of salmon fishing in the last 25-years.. A lot of this has to do with bare minimal fishing effort.
In all honesty I would welcome anyone down to fish... Give me MA13 any day!
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Steve Ericsson » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Captain Downriggin' wrote:
fishslave wrote:Capt. Downriggin says it isn't.

I say it is.

I won't waste the time and gas.


Fishslave... You up for a little wager? I'll pay all your expenses, we use my gear, and fish the spot(s) exactly how I would (or we can use my boat). I'll bet we put 30-keeper blackmouth in the boat by the end of October.. You have to be available to fish everyday... Name your price! If I win, I get the wager plus reimbursement.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Et al,

Yep.... absolute waste of time.. I won't tell about 2-limits of blackmouth this morning. Therefore, whatever you do DON'T, and I mean DON'T, come down here and fish! I would just stay in MA11 with the other 600-boats (maybe more) competing with all those anglers. And while most of those summer fish are shooting straight through and you guys are scratching your head wondering why the fishing is slow or where the fish are... Guess what? There's over 50K Chinook annually headed to the hatcheries down here.

If people took the time to learn where the fish are month to month they wouldn't be saying it is a dead zone. Now, if I were a bean counter, looking at those numbers I would say it is a dead zone too, but the reality of these numbers are only a small portion compared to that of other marine areas; hence, the small numbers of fish caught. If I throw the 10-percenter rule in... I'd say it just about right.

As easy as salmon fishing is, there more to throwing gear in the water...

I'll go on to say this year was perhaps the best year of salmon fishing in the last 25-years.. A lot of this has to do with bare minimal fishing effort.
In all honesty I would welcome anyone down to fish... Give me MA13 any day!





SHHHHH!!! Don't listen to him, it's lies, ALL LIES!!! wink: wink:
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby fishslave » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:09 pm

I have absolutely no doubt that if there are 20 fish in a one square mile area, CDR is going to catch 3/4 of them. He's been at this a while and knows the fishery better than anybody...

I think he's the reason the tribes see such low returns to their nets some years. clown:

BTW, I doubt hubby would let me fish with you in my boat or yours unless he was there. I try to avoid fishing with him whenever possible. clown:
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Captain Downriggin' » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:52 pm

Perfect.... with three of us I am thinking of up'ing to 45-fish?

My theories for what appears to be a lack of fish down south (including MA11) is interception in A9. Before A9 reopened as a fishery sometime back. the numbers of fish were pretty dang good, but one also needs to know we've had a few hatcheries close and production numbers have been cut. However, very few anglers know that we have an early fishery in May. Many of these fish are early Chambers and Deschutes fish that hang around down here and no one fishes for them. Instead folks wait for the June opener in MA11.. By then a lot of fish have already passed through the area. Take a quick peek at the numbers of anglers jigging/mooching Pt Evans in June. Those fish don't stop at the bridge and turn around...

The biggest problem with MA13 is a lack of familiarity not the fish.. We have plenty of fish... it is up to the angler to know where they are at any given time of year. It is pretty much the same pattern year after year.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby donno » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:40 am

Yup, no fish.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Steve Ericsson » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:52 pm

And rarely any fish checkers down here. It's not very often I see one when we take out anymore, they're all up north where it's busier I suppose.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby coaster » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:23 pm

It appears that Area 13 locations were visited 52 times by fish checkers in September. Of course, they don't spend all day at each one, and I have no idea how they schedule their various visits.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby fishslave » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:31 pm

If anyone is wondering, Coaster is a pleasant chap and would enjoy an invite with any of you. He didn't put me up to saying it either. Tup:
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby coaster » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:36 pm

North of here, In Area 11, it looks like fish checkers visited locations 50 times in September. They tallied four to five times as many boats and fishermen as they did with 52 visits in Area 13 during the same month, and they tallied almost twenty times more caught salmon.

CDR mentions 50K Chinook annually headed to the A13 hatcheries. There’s also the Squaxin net pen coho and the Nisqually tribal coho, etc.

WDFW allegedly forecast that 750,000 pinks would return to the Nisqually this year, indicating that the dike breaching in the Nisqually estuary drove that forecast. In Area 13, as noted earlier, 9 pinks were tallied by fish checkers for the whole month. In the first two weeks of September, 2011, about 300 pinks were tallied in A13.

Why isn't there a lot more salmon fishing effort in A13? Was the 2013 pink run just paper fish? Or was there very little pink fishing effort? Or are A13 fishermen simply crummy fishermen? Or has A13 become a dead zone?

The WDFW creel reports don’t tell the whole story, but they certainly raise questions.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby volynsky » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:04 pm

coaster wrote:North of here, In Area 11, it looks like fish checkers visited locations 50 times in September. They tallied four to five times as many boats and fishermen as they did with 52 visits in Area 13 during the same month, and they tallied almost twenty times more caught salmon.

CDR mentions 50K Chinook annually headed to the A13 hatcheries. There’s also the Squaxin net pen coho and the Nisqually tribal coho, etc.

WDFW allegedly forecast that 750,000 pinks would return to the Nisqually this year, indicating that the dike breaching in the Nisqually estuary drove that forecast. In Area 13, as noted earlier, 9 pinks were tallied by fish checkers for the whole month. In the first two weeks of September, 2011, about 300 pinks were tallied in A13.

Why isn't there a lot more salmon fishing effort in A13? Was the 2013 pink run just paper fish? Or was there very little pink fishing effort? Or are A13 fishermen simply crummy fishermen? Or has A13 become a dead zone?

The WDFW creel reports don’t tell the whole story, but they certainly raise questions.


I have concluded that I am a crummy fisherman. Of the hundreds of thousands of pinks that were forecasted for the Duwi/Green River (perhaps even past 1 million pinks?), I spent hours and hours fishing. I caught 4 measly pinks. LOL
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Captain Downriggin' » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:51 pm

I just took a look at the report 21-29 September (10-days). Perhaps the largest concentration of anglers for MA13 are "homeported" out of Narrows Marina- not on the creel report. A lot of old-timers with dry storage that fish daily, nor trailered boats never got checked... There a few other ramps that are not on the report that I know have a pretty good amount of coho come back - some of which are private.

Speaking of coho, over 2300 back to Minter already! Fish where the fish are and you'll catch fish! Hit those minor rips out off Green Point and you'll be in to them!
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby coaster » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:05 pm

Capt. DR:

I’m sure what you say is correct. And fishermen with boats moored at Swantown, Boston Harbor, Tacoma Outboard Association (in the Narrows), etc, never get checked either. At the same time, there are fishermen who moor their boats at the various Tacoma marinas, Gig Harbor, and other A11 facilities and are never checked or counted in the A11 creel reports.

But still, the WDFW creel reports say that angler effort and success is much greater in A11 than A13.

By the way, did those 750,000 pinks show up at the Nisqually?
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Jiggin.Deep » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:17 pm

Lol I quit believing a word wdfw has said about any fish forecast years ago...... its a joke..... I use to do well in ma-13 when I had my bigger boat now its too long a ride ... if anyone needs a boat mate or a open seat in 13 let me know....lol...
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Captain Downriggin' » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:10 am

coaster wrote:Capt. DR:

I’m sure what you say is correct. And fishermen with boats moored at Swantown, Boston Harbor, Tacoma Outboard Association (in the Narrows), etc, never get checked either. At the same time, there are fishermen who moor their boats at the various Tacoma marinas, Gig Harbor, and other A11 facilities and are never checked or counted in the A11 creel reports.

But still, the WDFW creel reports say that angler effort and success is much greater in A11 than A13.

By the way, did those 750,000 pinks show up at the Nisqually?


First, I do not know if the pinks showed or not.. I am not one to target them when fish 4-times their size are available; however, I did see quite a few large schools move through the Ketron Island area in early August. Where they went.......? I somewhat agree with a comment from above- paper fish!

Next, bean counting is not a specialty of mine either, but looking at greater effort versus less effort undoubtedly leads to greater success.. A quick glance of the population of the the two marine areas alone speaks volume. Therefore, I think creel reports are a poor representation of actual numbers of fish. Additionally, too many anglers are missed. The important information comes from the wire tags and scale samples that are taken from the fish at the ramp; which, I tend to believe the main reason for fish checker sampling.

I am more interested in ratio of fish per angler. E.g., if 100 boats were fishing over 50-fish at Point Defiance compared 5 boats fishing over 50-fish Gibson Point who has a better opportunity to catch fish? Again, effort and success would win, but the individual's opportunity increases with less angler pressure. Now here's comes CDR fishing over 50-fish and he is the only boat fishing.... Oh boy I am in heaven. This scenario plays out way too much, but I am thankful for no additional angling efforts. I hope this puts a different prospective on my thinking.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby Chasin' Tail » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:34 pm

coaster,

To answer your question about the pinks returning to the Nisqually.. I don't have a hard number for you, but I can tell you they went thru MA13 in mass.. But there was very little effort to catch them vs what you see in MA11.

I do know that it was rather simple to catch them if you targeted em. I played with them a few times not far from the mouth of the Squally and were hooking a fish on about every 10 casts. They were Thick! I was never checked by a fish checker, and can tell you that more were killed on my boat than what you say was checked in all of MA13 for the month.
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Re: WDFW Creel Reports: Is Area 13 a dead zone?

Postby corkiedrifter » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:17 pm

In early-mid September the Nisqually Tribe was passing 5000+ Pinks through the weir daily and were expecting it to get to 10000 per day. I do not doubt they are coming fairly close to the projection. The Pinks were thick in the lower river and we did not have a problem between tides catching and releasing anywhere from 10-30 of them between Tatsolo and the mouth on the salt side. They may still be out there, I haven't fished it since Grays Harbor Opened. My neighbor is still bringing limits of fairly bright ones home from the Tank Crossing as recently as Friday. A few Coho starting to show up too.

http://nwifc.org/2013/09/video-nisquall ... -pink-run/
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